Comments on James Clark's Random Thoughts: Thai personal names

Why so many Thai given names have no meaning? They...

2010-07-25T12:24:53.923+07:00

Why so many Thai given names have no meaning? They have. The names are words from Pali or Sanskrit. But maybe seldom used in Thai language. The ClickThai dictionary try to find the meaning also for such words or names. Many of them are included in the free online dict and much more in the full version.

Within the UK this can vary too. In Northern Engl...

2010-06-19T10:59:32.293+07:00

Within the UK this can vary too. In Northern England where my girlfriend originates, supposing her full name is Amber Charlotte Mycock, she will use Amber Mycock in situations such as signing up to a book-club or the library, Amber Charlotte Mycock when getting her passport or driving license and then Amber Charlotte amongst close friends and family.

In Wales where I'm from it's slightly different. My full name is Christopher Russell Swift however I've never used Russell in my name apart from government documents such as a passport or driver's license. I'm universally known as just Chris and I can use Chris Swift if I'm feeling lazy to sign up to a group or Christopher Swift if I wish to use my full name, there is no pattern to this but just a preference on how much I feel like writing/typing.

On a side note, historically in Wales we were named after our fathers for example if my father were Llywelyn and my name were Ioan, then I'd be called Ioan ap Llywelyn, however if the father's name began with a vowel such as Iolo then I would be Ioan ab Iolo, ap/ab means "son of". For girls sometimes they would be named after the mother, so Myfanwy the daughter of Caridwen would be Myfanwy ferch Caridwen.

In Brazil it usually follows first(s) name(s) + mo...

2010-06-19T00:38:40.670+07:00

In Brazil it usually follows first(s) name(s) + mother's family name + father's family name. Myself, for example, am called Pedro Ivo Coimbra Siqueira e Dantas. Pedro Ivo being my first names, Coimbra my mother family's name, and Siqueira e Dantas comes from my father. It's quite a long name (for a brazilian, at least) and sometimes I'm mocked by my friends that say I must belong to the royal family, for having such a long name.
But this structure, mother's family name + father's family is just a tradition, not a law: my wife, for instance, has a different name structure: she is called Marina Campos Magalhães, but Campos comes from her father and Magalhães from her mother. Her parents just though it sounded nicer. So, when we have kids, if we follow the tradition it should be named Something Campos Dantas, but it could really have any combination of our last names.
In the countryside and small towns, some time ago, people used to be known by their first name and mother's first name. For example, João de Maria, meaning João son of Maria. Off course, they would still have an canonical name for official purposes.

you have a great observation of your thai culture ...

2010-04-20T16:14:05.001+07:00

you have a great observation of your thai culture re:names. this post is very interactive and sought comments from people from different country.

My Thai wife and I had a boy a couple of months ag...

2009-10-20T23:15:49.430+07:00

My Thai wife and I had a boy a couple of months ago, with the given name Miles and the Thai nickname Tanat. I blogged about the naming conventions here. Interestingly, his nickname is never used by my wife's family and friends, and instead they prefer to call him Smiles, a derivation of his English given name. I wonder if this will stick, with his English nickname superceding his Thai nickname. Time will tell.

In addition to what uhop described, there's an...

2009-10-17T17:55:53.370+07:00

In addition to what uhop described, there's another common mode of address in Russian tradition: in informal context between grown-ups, it's possible to use just a patronymic. So, for example, my father's friends at work call him Antonovich (son of Anton).

What Aaron Davies said about different forms of the name for different levels of intimacy is not entirely true. Russian language has a rich system of prefixes and postfixes for changing words, so Vanka, Vanechka, Vanyok, Vanyushka are all forms of Vanya, which is a diminutive form of Ivan. There is no common preferred way of choosing one of those forms, so a given Vanya can be called Vanka or Vanek even in the same conversation.

In marriage, the wife traditionally takes the husband's surname (though it's not required). For example, if Katia Ivanova becomes the wife of Ivan Petrov, she will become Katia Petrova. Their children's surname will also be Petrov.

The point about having two first names that Rajmus...

2009-10-17T12:55:22.248+07:00

The point about having two first names that Rajmus made for Swedish also applies to Chinese.

My wife's name (in Pinyin) is Hui Ling Chen. Her given name is Hui Ling. Sometimes Americans we know get confused and call her Hui, which sounds kind of weird to my ears (I know enough Chinese to know that's not right).

However, you can take one of the syllables it in a nickname. Doing that you could have Xiao Hui, Xiao Ling, Hui Hui, and Ling Ling. The "Xiao" in the first two nicknames is the word "small". Using "Xiao" plus one of the given name syllables is a common nickname pattern, as is the repetition.

There are also nicknames that don't include a given name syllable. My wife has a friend whose given name is Hui Ping, but her nickname is Pi Pi (which just does not sound good in English, obviously). I have no idea how this nickname came about. It could be related to the Ping sound in her name, or it could be something else entirely.

One of the other complications is in European name...

2009-10-17T02:55:12.816+07:00

One of the other complications is in European names which have a preposition in them, such as von Trapp. This preposition "von" is always lowercase, and never used as an initial; I don't believe it's considered in sorting, either, though I can't say that for certain. I had a friend who's middle name was "von Wrangel", and she always had trouble convincing computer systems that while her full middle name was "von Wrangle", when abbreviated to an initial it was simply "W.", not "V." or even "v. W.".

In Frisia (Friesland) in the north of the Netherla...

2009-10-17T02:35:08.750+07:00

In Frisia (Friesland) in the north of the Netherlands, it used to be that the oldest son was called after the grandfather and that sons were called by their own name and their fathers name (+s) as a second name. The result was that the names of the oldest sons would flip between the generation: Piter Jelles would get a Jelle Piters who would get a Piter Jelles, etc. This continued even after last names were made obligatory and official in napoleontic times.

I do not know how common it is now, but I guess it must have been common still at the beginning of the 20th century. The tradition of being called after your grandfather is probably still alive.

In Sweden there are a few other, special old name ...

2009-10-17T02:12:49.838+07:00

In Sweden there are a few other, special old name conventions. One is called "Gårdsnamn" ("Farm name"). Before the 20th century when Swedish farmers still used patronymic family names, there were sometimes several people in a parish or village with the same name. To separate them, they took the name of their farm as a part of the full name, like "Dammens Lars Johansson" (Farmname Given name('s) Family name). Swedish name law still allows for such names.

Another convention is the soldier name, which was previously used in the Swedish Army, with the same use as above. If there were several men named Andersson in one military unit, they would be alotted names like Duva ("Dove"), Svärd ("Sword") or Rask ("Fast") or other epithas. Those names are today used as family names.

I've been involved in i18n/l10n for 25 years n...

2009-10-16T22:26:30.504+07:00

I've been involved in i18n/l10n for 25 years now, and this is the most exhaustive discussion in a single place of just how varied naming conventions are as I've ever seen. My brain hurts; I think it would have even if it weren't nearly 23.30 here.

Well done, all; bookmarked.

My family followed the French catholic tradition s...

2009-10-16T20:33:29.045+07:00

My family followed the French catholic tradition so I have:

First Name + Middle Name + Last Name

But the middle name is my godfather's first name and is *never* used except on my passport and ID card.

i understand russian also sometimes has different ...

2009-10-16T18:05:46.100+07:00

i understand russian also sometimes has different nicknames for different levels of intimacy--ivan would be "vanya" to most of his friends, "vanyushka" to his mother or his girlfriend, and "vanka" to some other friends.

i've heard that in arabic, if your son becomes famous, you may decide to be known as his father: ali, son of (the not famous) yusuf, father of the (now-famous) achmed, would change his preferred name from "ali ibn yusuf" to "ali abu achmed".

In Poland, it is not uncommon for people to use di...

2009-10-16T16:09:13.813+07:00

In Poland, it is not uncommon for people to use different names when dealing with family and close friends. Also, diminutive forms of names are extremely common.

For example, My cousins non-family names are Piotr Bartosh. His entire family calls him Bartek (diminutive form of Bartosh) while all his friends call him Piotrek (diminutive form of Piotr). People who don't know him that well would of course use either Piotr or his last name.

Christopher William, the dual-naming convention yo...

2009-10-16T14:23:21.803+07:00

Christopher William, the dual-naming convention you described in Texas seems to be fairly common across in the south-east US.

Sometimes the diminutive (ie nicknames) are used also, so you could be Chris Will. Although this typically only happens when the diminutives sound good together, such as Mary Sue (short for Mary Susan) or Jim Bob (short for James Robert).

"Whereas formal given names are restricted to...

2009-10-16T12:38:29.937+07:00

"Whereas formal given names are restricted to names that the bureaucrats of the interior ministry deem appropriate"

We pick our own formal given names, the govt has nothing to do with it. The only thing they can control is obtaining new last names, to make sure that the assumption that people with the same family names are related continue to apply. Everything else is as you mentioned.

出会い
巨乳
おっぱい
エロ
エッチ
熟女
おまんこ
セックス
人妻

German names are of course similar to Austrian nam...

2008-01-04T20:09:00.000+07:00

German names are of course similar to Austrian names. E.g. Hans-Peter Müller has a single first name, and Hans Peter Müller has two. Common double names are frequently shortened in informal contexts, e.g. Hans-Peter is called Hape, Hans-Joachim is Hajo and so on.

Additionally, there used to be a tradition (at least in Northern Germany) to name children after their grand parents first names, e.g. my fathers first names are Gerhard Otto Adolf, as his grandfathers were called Otto and Adolf, respectively, but that's no longer in use apparently.

Another fun thing is that in Bavaria people are traditionally adressed Lastname Firstname.

Also, people frequently have double lastnames when married. On marriage, the couple picks one of their names as the marriage name ("Ehename") which will be the lastname of the kids. The couple itself can choose to keep the old name, take the new name, or prepend/append the new name to their old one, using a dash.

The idea to simply store names for use in certain contexts is probably a good one. Even the variations within western name systems are huge.

Also, to be correct you'll have to adapt context uses. I.e. most German users would be somewhat surprised to be greeted by a webpage as "Hallo Karl", as the usage of the first name only is quite uncommon in professional contexts.

I guess you could look at the chue len as being a ...

2007-12-29T04:29:00.000+07:00

I guess you could look at the chue len as being a particular flavour of hypocoristic. One notable feature of this flavour is that the chue len is typically not derived from the formal given name.

How does this concept In Thai relate to the (not j...

2007-12-28T22:51:00.000+07:00

How does this concept In Thai relate to the (not just English) idea of "pet names" or hypocoristics (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_name)?

In Texas the first two names are frequently used t...

2007-12-23T12:26:00.000+07:00

In Texas the first two names are frequently used together. My mother was Sara Jean before she came North and simply Sara after she got here. Her best friend was Mary Alice. I never heard her call her just Mary, and she often called me Christopher William or just CW for short. So this isn't just an outside the US peculiarity.

Paul Morris said:

The nice thing would be t...

2007-12-13T21:53:00.000+07:00

Paul Morris said:

The nice thing would be to share what we'd done, but does anyone else want that?

I think it would be useful, listening
to the comments here?

DaveP

When we developed our worldwide personnel system w...

2007-12-13T21:45:00.000+07:00

When we developed our worldwide personnel system we came up with a whole screen for people to enter their names, including unattached prefixes, orders, sort orders.

I did some research at the time (probably 4 years ago) and I couldn't find anyone else who'd done this work already.

It's probably hidden in the design notes of personnel systems for similarly international organisations.

The nice thing would be to share what we'd done, but does anyone else want that?

Lars Marius, if you put a non-breaking space betwe...

2007-12-11T21:14:00.000+07:00

Lars Marius, if you put a non-breaking space between your first names, does Facebook treat them as one?

Here is a good bog post discussing some i18n namin...

2007-12-11T11:54:00.000+07:00

Here is a good bog post discussing some i18n naming issues:

http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100
"Personal names around the world 1"